By Georgina Baidoun and Claire Martin, 8th August 2024
We observed the 12noon hearing on 5th August 2024 (COP 14178318) before DJ Buss in Nottingham.
The hearing was listed in CourtServe (see screenshot below) with the descriptor: “Should a deputy be appointed for ‘P’ in relation to her property and affairs?” and it was a “Public Hearing – With Reporting Restrictions” lasting for one hour by CVP (cloud video platform).

We’re going to address two main issues in this blog: (1) “Transparency matters” (by Claire Martin) and (2) “Appointing daughter as deputy” (by Georgina Baidoun). In a final “Reflections” section, Claire Martin explains why transparency and open justice are so important for hearings like this, because it helps us all to understand the process involved if we want to be appointed as a deputy to manage someone’s finances after they’ve lost capacity to do so themselves – and might inspire more of us to appoint a trusted person with Lasting Power of Attorney instead, while we still have capacity to do so.
1. Transparency matters – by Claire Martin
Access to the hearing was as helpful as could be.
I emailed the court the evening before the hearing, requesting the link and the Transparency Order. Both were received before 10am the following morning, and in the hearing itself DJ Buss said that he’d asked for the Transparency Order to be sent to all public observers.
This was one of the most helpful hearings I have observed from the point of view of open justice. It felt quite clear – both from the court clerk and from the judge – that public observers were welcome and transparency mattered to the court.
When I joined the CVP link I was, as is usual, met with the automated voiceover ‘waiting for the conference host to join’. I had logged in early to avoid any glitches in joining. I could see that Georgina was on the link too, once I was connected
The clerk asked us both whether we could see and hear her. I unmuted myself and confirmed that I could. We couldn’t hear Georgina. I had an inkling that she could hear and see but might have joined the platform by clicking the ‘observer’ button (understandably – we are observers after all!). However, I have learnt myself in a previous hearing, when I did that, that you can see and hear the court but you cannot unmute yourself or turn your camera on. Instead, you have to click to join with ‘audio+video’. There are no instructions that tell you this though! And I realised that the court clerk didn’t seem to know this either. I unmuted again and explained to the clerk that this might be what had happened. Georgina then wrote into the chat function that she could hear and see. A third observer (Maggie Bruce-Konuah) was struggling to join – the clerk made some suggestions which I relayed to Maggie via WhatsApp, and then her name appeared on screen, though she could still not hear or see. After some further direction from the clerk Maggie was able to see and hear the hearing.
I was very grateful to the clerk for taking time to ensure we were all able to access to the hearing properly, without pressure or sense of irritation. She took responsibility for the court-side of access and ensured that the practicalities of using the platform (as far as she knew them) were explained when access was tricky.
When DJ Buss entered the attitude was the same. He spent a few minutes addressing the issue that the third observer was having in connecting and established (via the chat function) that she could see and hear the court. The judge asked me directly if I could see and hear, so I unmuted myself to confirm that I could.
DJ Buss then checked that we as observers had received the Transparency Order and I confirmed verbally that I had received it. He stated that he always asks for Transparency Orders to be sent to observers. This was very welcome – it is often difficult to know who to ask for Transparency Orders when they are not automatically sent to us. It never seems to be in anyone’s job description!
After these administrative issues were addressed the substantive part of the hearing got underway.
2. Appointing daughter as deputy: The hearing – by Georgina Baidoun
The judge opened the hearing by saying that the applicant (A) was asking for the court to appoint her as deputy for her mother’s property and financial affairs. There had been a few court orders since the application was first made and he asked A to provide a summary for the benefit of the observers.
A said that she first submitted her application in October 2023 when her mother was still living at home. Very soon afterwards, she had moved permanently into a care home. The care home had successfully applied for a DOLS (Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards) order through the local authority and, as part of this process she had been appointed to be her mother’s ‘representative’: this is likely to be a Relevant Person’s Representative https://mental-capacity.co.uk/relevant-persons-representative-rpr/.
The problems with the application appeared to stem from two issues. The first was that P’s only other close relative, her son, had himself initially lacked mental capacity to sign the appropriate form supporting his sister’s application; this was now rectified, and A had uploaded the form to the court’s on-line application system in March 2024. The second was whether P had been able to participate in and approve the application.
P had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease and, according to A, had deteriorated rapidly in the last 12 months. She was not aware that she was no longer making her own decisions about either her finances or where she was living. When it was first noticed that her mental capacity was declining, there had been an attempt to get her to sign a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) but it was too late.
For a time, A had worked alongside her mother to manage her affairs but that also became impossible. She wondered, in hindsight, whether it had been a mistake, because it served to cover up her mother’s lack of capacity. The judge reassured her about this and said her actions were in line with the requirements of the Mental Capacity Act 2005. The court encouraged that kind of support and not taking choices away from P if he/she only needed a little support and help. He asked if this had stopped working and A said it had.
The judge noted that the documents showed that P was aware of the application but didn’t agree with it. A said she and P’s social worker had tried to persuade her mother of the need for an LPA but her mother had been convinced that she still had capacity to manage her own affairs. (I presume that A was saying here that, since her mother had already denied the need for an LPA, the same reasoning was being applied to the application for a deputyship.) A then said that, if her mother had the mental capacity to understand the consequences of her actions, i.e. that her daughter was having to appear in court, she would be very upset. (This made me think of when I was in a similar situation; my mother would have hated to have her affairs played out in public if she had realized the consequences of her refusal to draw up an LPA.)
There was one further complication that the judge wanted to address. A lived out of the country and he wanted to know what effect that would have on how she managed P’s affairs. A replied that she sees her mother regularly and that, once she had the court order, there would be no problem managing P’s finances on-line. It had been harder without the court order and things had already had to be done on the understanding that the order would come through.
At this point, the judge reassured A that he did not mean to subject her to an interrogation, but he had one remaining problem which was that the form that A’s brother had signed did not appear in the documents he had received. A was able to give him the reference number but the judge said it would be more expeditious if she simply sent him a copy of the form, which she agreed to do immediately after the hearing finished. The judge said he was “not at all surprised” that the document had not found its way into the court files! (The on-line application system is relatively new and I wonder if this is one of its teething problems.)
Interesting to me was that the judge next mentioned the documents he did have, including the COP3 which is assessment of capacity, which had been signed by a ‘social care professional’ and was seen as acceptable, particularly since P’s long-term GP had been notified of the application and approved it. In my experience, despite my mother’s social care team conducting a capacity assessment upon which they relied to remove her from her own home to a care home, they would not sign the COP3. Neither would her GP; I had to get the consultant who had seen her some time previously to do it, adding an extra month to the time it took to get my court order.
This reminded me of recent discussions in the Court of Protection Users’ Group meetings which I attend. In response to a question as to who should sign COP3, Senior Judge HHJ Hilder said “that the review of the COP3 by the Rules Committee which led to the current form of the COP3 specifically considered this question and determined that an exhaustive list was not possible, not least because the landscape of roles in this area is constantly changing. The appropriateness of an assessor depends on both the expertise/experience of the assessor and the circumstances of the incapacitated person. The decision maker needs to be satisfied that the assessor is appropriately qualified in the circumstances required.”
Finally, the judge asked A if she understood all the undertakings she was making in becoming a deputy. He concentrated particularly on the security bond that a deputy is required to pay for (from P’s money) to insure P’s money against loss from misapplication. A was not aware of this but the judge assured her that, given that P’s assets were small, the sum would not be significant. He told her that there were approved bond providers from which she could choose, although I know, again from the Users’ Group, that there is currently only one provider. It was the same situation when I became a deputy, although it was a different provider who has recently given up. Since the provider often seems to be in a monopoly position, you would imagine that they would be pleased to get the business, but that seems not to be the case.
These details having been covered, the judge said he would make the order to appoint A as Court of Protection deputy for P’s property and financial affairs as soon as he had received the form that she had ready to email to him. He reminded her that she would be responsible to the Office of the Public Guardian for her conduct as deputy and that she should turn to them if she needed any advice.
3. Reflections: The importance of transparency in this case – by Claire Martin
The raison d’être of the Open Justice Court of Protection Project is to promote understanding of, and access to, the Court of Protection. We cannot do that without public observers being willing to observe and without court staff, lawyers and judges enabling our access to hearings.
This includes supporting the protected party and family members (if they’re in court) and litigants in person to appreciate the role of observers. This was done well in this case.
At the start of the hearing DJ Buss explained the presence of observers to A (the applicant), daughter of the protected party and a litigant in person:
Judge: [Applicant] as you can see we have people who want to observe today. Most Court of Protection cases are heard in public. There are some limitations as to what can be reported, set out in the Transparency Order, I suspect you will have seen this amongst the papers – and there are observers today I have in court.
This was a very pragmatic and straightforward introduction to having observers in court. It was presented as a normal and important part of the ecosystem of the justice system.
And then, at the end of the hearing, A and DJ Buss had this short exchange:
A: Thank you for your time and thank you to the observers.
Judge: I suspect they are from the Transparency Project [I corrected on the chat that we were from the OJCOP Project]. We as judges are keen to ensure justice is seen to be done – it’s well worth looking at the stuff they do online. It’s very interesting to read.
A: Thanks. I will have a look.
DJ Buss achieved open justice in a very understated yet clear manner. Open justice matters. It means that members of the public – including people with relatives with dementia, people concerned about getting their affairs in order in case they get dementia in the future (and those who may already have a diagnosis) – can see how these issues are dealt with by the court. The third public observer who observed this hearing, Maggie Bruce-Konuah, has a particular interest in how people with dementia are treated. She reflected on what she witnessed:
“Today’s hearing was a revelation in terms of the judge’s empathy and how he explained himself. I made a lot of notes during the hearing so it’s given me much to reflect on. I was very touched by the Judge’s empathy and I was very moved by how he behaved towards the woman who was seeking deputyship. I did shed a tear as it wasn’t an expectation that the judge would behave in that way.”
For Maggie, then, observing court proceedings was a positive experience that reassured her about the approach taken by a Court of Protection judge – especially his “empathy”. That’s important to know for anyone who might in future be involved in court hearings.
The value of being able to watch and report on these proceedings is also that it exposes some of what is involved when an application is made to become a Deputy. Many people find themselves in this situation – similarly to A in this case – where it is too late for their relative to make a Lasting Power of Attorney (because a person must retain mental capacity to make a LPA). Reading about A and the lengthy process she has been through might be of help to others to know – in advance – what to expect.
A had applied to the Court of Protection for Property & Finance deputyship in October 2023. She explained that she was asked in February 2024 to notify her brother (who signed the papers in March 2024). She has also needed to notify her mother’s social worker and GP – and it seemed, from what DJ Buss said, that it was important that they both supported the application:
Judge: In terms of people notified of this application, you have notified the social worker who did the capacity assessment, you’ve notified Dr X [GP]…
[later]
Judge: As far as the COP is concerned one of the things I have to be mindful of is there are plenty of situations where people have the capacity to make decisions with a little bit of support. If that is the case the court would hope they can have that support. Taking that away can happen in some circumstances, but … would it be fair to say you have done that?
A: Yes the deterioration in Mum’s cognitive function and memory is so different from 12-24 months ago, she struggles to recognise where she is, financial processes… she struggles with processing complex decision making, A lot of things we’ve been doing around her best interests and that’s part of the DOLs order, more of a framework around decision-making is taking place – not her finances though, obviously.
Judge: What really I think is important is that care is taken when giving consideration for making this type of order. Although it’s what I am sure seems like a lengthy process from your point of view, and a frustrating one, when you are clearly trying to do the best for your mum. I hope you can see the court needs to take care of doing things properly.
The judge is right, of course. Wouldn’t it be so much better if we all made Lasting Powers of Attorney before we ‘needed’ to? We can choose who to appoint as our attorney(s) when we have time and the mental capacity to do so, and we can clearly record our wishes as part of that process. This case shows what might happen if we don’t make an LPA, and family members then need to go through this long and torturous process. (This is through no fault of the judge, or court system: as DJ Buss said, the court must satisfy itself that the person is able and in the best position to manage their relative’s affairs).
In the hearing, A expressed this most eloquently, after DJ Buss asked her whether she could understand the court’s need for caution:
A: Absolutely – with the social worker we have talked about the benefits of an LPA as opposed to going through this complicated process. Mum’s belief is that she is managing her finances. It’s hard for her to read through information and understand what decision-making is being asked of her. That level of reasoning is not possible for her. If she was here I think she would be very upset that this is what would be needed to happen.
Anything could happen to any of us at any time: we don’t need to wait for a diagnosis or until age makes us think of our mortality. As A explained, sadly, it became too late for her mum to make an LPA, and she is now faced with a court deputyship process at a time when she has so much else to do to support her mum.
Georgina Baidoun was the lay Court of Protection Deputy for her mother’s Property and Financial Affairs until her mother died in 2021. Because of the difficulties she experienced with several applications to the Court, and with the Office of the Public Guardian in connection with her annual report, she has retained an interest in these areas, including attending Court of Protection Users Group meetings. She is keen to share her experiences in the hope that she can help others who have to engage with these institutions with very little help or guidance. She tweets as @GeorgeMKeynes
Claire Martin is a Consultant Clinical Psychologist, Cumbria, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear NHS Foundation Trust, Older People’s Clinical Psychology Department, Gateshead. She is a member of the core team of the Open Justice Court of Protection Project and has published dozens of blog posts for the Project about hearings she’s observed (e.g. here and here). She tweets @DocCMartin




















